Do It Today

Kara Cutruzzula: Hi everyone.

Welcome to Do It Today.

I'm CAR Kruk.

Today I'm very fortunate to talk
to Samantha Macel, who's a Broadway

actress, singer, and writer.

She's also appeared widely in television
and film, and I'm incredibly excited to

talk to her at this very moment because
soon she'll be leading the world premiere

of a new musical called Double Helix.

So Sam, hi.

you do so much, it's a beautiful
spring afternoon in your

hometown of New York City.

what are you doing today?

Samantha Massell: Um, today's
kind of been a weird day so far.

Nothing like crazy.

My boyfriend just left, he's off to go
do some press in LA for a couple days and

then he is got like a lot of weird travel.

And because I'm starting rehearsal
for this show, I'm a little

bit locking it down covid wise.

So we had a very tearful goodbye.

I know.

So sad.

And then, um, I'm going to
see goodnight Oscar tomorrow.

So, I picked up a little present
for a pile of mine in the cast.

and then I just got back to my apartment
and now I'm on the phone with you.

Kara Cutruzzula: So, sounds
like a lot of life stuff.

Life stuff in between,
prepping for the show stuff.

could you tell us a little bit about
the show and what, that work looks like?

today, basically, as you're, as

you're leading up to,
the premier next month.

Samantha Massell: Yeah, I would love to.

so first of all, lemme just say I'm, this
show is very near and dear to my heart.

I've been, I've been involved with it,
since before it was really ever on paper.

so it's really thrilling to finally
be at this step of the process.

Um, and it feels like a really big gift.

Um, don't know the story of Rosalyn
Franklin, and I certainly didn't,

when Madeline first told me about this
show, basically in post World War ii.

in England, um, there was this
young x-ray Crystallographer who was

working at King's College in London.

she.

Was, you know, a woman in a man's
world treated with misogyny and

anti-Semitism at every turn.

And she takes this photograph
called Photograph 51.

Um, and it's not just like, you know
how we click on our iPhones every day?

It's, these are huge photographs that
take hundreds of hours to develop, and

then you have to measure the coordinates.

It's a whole Um, and it reveals a
structure of d n A to be a double helix.

she takes this extraordinary photograph,
photograph 51, which, gets basically

taken off her desk by her lab partner
who she had a bad working relationship

with and given to Watson Andrick.

And the three of them went
on win the Nobel Prize and

she was left out of history.

tells the story from her perspective.

And shows her involvement.

She was actually in the
New York Times yesterday.

Yesterday was um, something called
DNA N A Day, which commemorated the

70th anniversary of the discovery
of the structure, a k a when Watson and Crick published in nature.

the musicals, about Rosalind
and woman who gave up a lot of.

Common things that a woman would be doing
in that day for work and for science.

So what we sort of say is it's the story
of a woman who sacrifices, what makes her

human to discover what makes us human.

Kara Cutruzzula: I mean, it's,
it's something to sing about.

Samantha Massell: It certainly is.

Kara Cutruzzula: and like you said,
it's incredibly timely And so people

are Having her top of mind right now.

But, you know, looking back at the
history of this artistic collaboration

with the composer, lyricist, Madeline
Myers, you know, you said you've been

working on the show for four years,
and four years is a really long time.

Does this feel like the moment you've
been waiting for, that you're getting

it on stage in front of everyone?

Samantha Massell: Yeah.

In many ways, yes.

I mean, musicals, first of all take
a really long time, to get out there.

This is not necessarily uncommon, That
said, it's less common, I think for

actors to be involved for this long.

that that happens every so
often, but for me, I've really

been a part of this journey.

Like Madeline approached me
about this when she was doing

research, in summer of 2018, like
literally nothing was on the page.

so I've sort of been.

Dreaming and scheming and imagining
what this would be for so long,

Kara Cutruzzula: Mm-hmm.

Samantha Massell: and sort of like
mentally preparing and prepping and all

of that stuff, so that, that's sort of
been the unique aspect of this journey.

we're at this point I feel like
we're family, we're sisters.

We were close before this started,
but this has certainly brought

us significantly closer together.

We often joke, I feel like she says,
I, I talk to you more than I talk to

my husband and I'm like, I talk to
you more than I talk to my boyfriend.

We are just like constantly
in communication.

What if we did this?

What if we did this?

I read the draft, I thought this,
wouldn't it be so cool if one day we

were in whatever, you know what I mean?

We're like what we were
to our Broadway opening.

Like we're always just sort of like
twittering about, scheming and dreaming.

something that's really
brought us together.

Is how much we believe in this
piece, and how much we yearn

for this story to be told.

when I heard that we were planning
this production, like, you know,

actors were constantly faced with,
do I wanna audition for this?

Do I wanna do this job?

you know what I mean?

And I very quickly was like,
there is nothing that's

gonna take me away from this.

Continuing on this artistic journey,
I felt very strongly about that.

Kara Cutruzzula: What will it look like
for the next few weeks with rehearsals and

getting everything together and in shape?

is that dayday gonna feel like for you?

Samantha Massell: well, it's
sort of starting now because I've

known this was coming for so long.

I mean, like, you know,
we all went through this.

We've all been locked down and doing
less theater than we would've been.

Otherwise.

so I started getting back in voice
lessons, getting myself back into shape.

I've done a lot of research.

Um, we start formal rehearsals on Monday,
which will be a 10 to six type of affair.

you know, we'll start with
dialect and music rehearsal

and some character discussions.

I've been told I'm also doing some
preliminary music rehearsals tomorrow

and Friday, which will be nice
just to get my bearings cuz it's a.

I know, Madeline's musical language
so well now that like I can, it's

a very complex score, but I feel
like I can pick it up very quickly.

But it's just helpful for anything
new, especially since I've known it

in so many iterations to just get
a little bit of a headstart, cuz my

brain will wanna do the old version.

Kara Cutruzzula: Mm-hmm.

Samantha Massell: so yeah,
we, we go into this 10 to six.

Thing.

And then we get two days off.

and we travel to SAG Harbor,
which will be beautiful.

And then we do tech into
previews, into performances.

Kara Cutruzzula: how do you gear up your
mind, your body, your heart, like all

of the above before the show goes on.

Do you have any practices or
processes that you turn to?

Samantha Massell: I do think this
is one of those things, this type

of stamina for this type of roles
is the kind of thing I think you

kind of only know if you've done it.

And I don't mean like done double helix.

Like I remember when I was doing rags
in 2017, I, I sang like 16 songs.

I never left the stage.

And I remember like being
like, okay, here we go.

And afterwards I was like, I did that.

and it sort of teaches you so much about.

Everyone's, every person is different.

Everybody is different, what you need.

So I feel like I have, I sort of
have done some prep work on that.

Every score is different, so how am I
maintaining my instrument and making

sure I'm, in a good place with that.

I think above all though, like the mental
aspect of it is just, I remember when

I was doing Fiddler, I felt so much
pressure to be perfect all the time,

and that's just an unattainable goal.

Um, and doing rags, going through
that monster of a role and a scorer,

I started to learn like about
my limits and trust that I guess

trust myself a little bit more.

I'm, I'm so freaking excited, which I
think is going to carry me through a lot.

Like, I just can't believe
we're here and I feel, I just

feel so grateful and so lucky.

but I also, I feel like I know
what my body needs to do this.

I know when I need to be on voice rest.

I know when I can, whatever,
when I can have a glass of wine.

, I think part of this also, like
obviously we're, we're very optimistic

that Bay Street is the first leg
of what will be along an exciting

journey, hopefully back to New York.

I think this is also, in many
ways, this is my test drive.

Kara Cutruzzula: it just sounds like
there are so many different facets

to keeping up that momentum, but you
do have the endorphins on your side.

the excitement all of the pent
up energy of four years of

waiting to this.

And then also what is to
come, you know, after.

And, yeah, it just sounds like
a, tremendously exciting moment,

Samantha Massell: The other thing that I
will say, just in regards to that, like

literal taking care question is like
sometimes it's easier to just be up there.

As opposed to come on and off the stage
like that, like in Fiddler, like what

I did where you're, we do matchmaker
and then we had 20 minutes and we did

this and then, you know what I mean?

Once you're, it's kind of
nice to just like press go.

or at least that's been my experience.

I'm very excited.

Kara Cutruzzula: so I guess I'm curious
because you know, you're a writer as

well, how you sort of down a script
and understand it and understand the

story that you're all telling together.

Samantha Massell: I think the biggest
thing for me, I guess the secret sauce

is probably the act of collaboration.

It's hearing how everyone else
is, participating in the room.

But overall, I feel like I
know the story of my bones.

What I don't know now is what
everyone else is gonna do.

there's this great like Phillip Seymour
Hoffman quote that I impart a lot

of my students and, um, It, he's,
they're basically like, what's acting?

And his response is, I like to find
the chaos within the structure.

You know what I mean?

Like, I got my structure.

I know how to find the structure.

I know where I start.

I know where I end.

I know like where my events
happen and things change.

The chaos is everyone else who's
participating in this with me.

And I don't mean that in a negative way.

That's where the spontaneity is
gonna come from, and that's what's

gonna make this feel really alive.

Kara Cutruzzula: God,
that's such a great quote.

Samantha Massell: It's
such a great quote, right?

Kara Cutruzzula: That's so good.

That's so perfect.

Something, something to remember that
like the freedom that you can have

and, and mess around with things.

I think,

I don't know.

That's the beautiful part of it.

Samantha Massell: you know, and that's
what's like, so exciting about getting

to like really play, you know, like
even when you're at a music stand,

like you, we have these other actors
and we're participating with them and

there's some chaos, but really you're
just like, okay, we're in four four now.

Like, this is, we're really gonna
get to ping pong off each other.

It's gonna be really exciting.

Kara Cutruzzula: How.

Do you protect your time
and space during the day?

Samantha Massell: I, I think
that's kind of like a a

journey that I'm constantly on.

One thing I've tried to do actually
really recently, this is very specific,

is I've tried to, to alleviate my
need to respond to things right away.

Kara Cutruzzula: Hmm.

Samantha Massell: Whether it be an email
or a text or something like, unless it is

legitimately urgent, I just, I feel like
I'd gotten in a habit where I just, I felt

like everything merited an an immediate
response and that was getting really to,

for me, I think that's part of it.

I also think is it, this is a
lesson I've learned later in life

and it applies to many things.

But, treating things that don't
necessarily feel like work, like work.

for example, I wrote a movie this in
the last year and a half with two pals

that were in the process of shopping
around and, you know, in many ways,

like, we're not getting paid for it.

It was fun.

our goal is to.

sell it and make it and
all of those things.

And something I'm really proud of is that
three of us really treated those writing

sessions like they were in the calendar.

This was not some dinner date
that someone was gonna cancel

on last minute, like we worked.

and that's how I try and approach all
of this creative stuff that's like what

I'm thinking about or reading a book for
Double Helix or taking a voice lesson in

anticipation of of starting rehearsals.

Like those types of things that is.

Really consciously saying, you know,
no, that Samantha, that is work.

Kara Cutruzzula: Hmm.

Samantha Massell: you're not getting
paid for it, which can sometimes

feel like you're like, hmm.

but it is, it is real work.

and it's a testament to your
commitment, for these creative projects.

So I think that's part of it is
like really saying this is work.

Kara Cutruzzula: that's fantastic.

I, I love that perspective and I think
we so often talk ourselves out of

that, where it's, oh, This person needs
something from me, or this is a paying

gig, or this feels a little more urgent.

But our own creative work, I
think, deserves that time and

space on the calendar and deserves
that sort of immovable quality.

And it can be fun, but it can
also be really serious, right?

that's how the good
projects actually get made.

Samantha Massell: no,
I think you're right.

And I also think also like
in the spirit of that saying

no to what doesn't serve you.

Do you know what I mean?

I, I teach on the side, for example.

it's a wonderful side job
and I, and I quite enjoy it.

I love my students.

I'm so grateful.

But I've made a decision while I'm
working on the show to not teach.

I was just like, I'm not gonna
come home from rehearsal at 6:00

PM and hop on Zoom with three kids.

It's just I wanna be able to really
immerse myself in this artistic process.

So like those types of decisions,
or like, me actively saying

no is is very empowering,

Kara Cutruzzula: That's so funny.

Anne Harrada said the exact same thing on

this podcast where she's like, I do
this mental calculation of like, yes.

That sounds cool, but how many
hours is it going to take?

What is it?

What am I going to be
taken away from to do this?

And you know, you wanna give a
definitive yes or a definitive no.

You don't want to be talking yourself
into something and then find yourself in

a situation that you wanna get out of,

Samantha Massell: And every time
I do that, every time I like

talk myself into something like
that, I immediately regret it.

Kara Cutruzzula: it blows up always.

Samantha Massell: So I've tried
to really just say no, unless

something really serves me.

know what I mean?

Kara Cutruzzula: do you have
language for things like that?

Samantha Massell: Oh sure do.

Kara Cutruzzula: so I ask you
to do something next week,

you have other commitments and
you wanna let me down gently.

What do you, what do you tell

me?

Samantha Massell: like thank you so
much for thinking of me for this.

This sounds like a wonderful project.

I'm a little over-committed this week, but
best of luck and please feel free to reach

back out again another time I'm actually,
I'm quite fa that was fair paraphrase,

but I'm famous in my friend circles for
writing everybody's business emails.

if any of my best friends have sent an
important email to their agent or there's

something, chances are I wrote it.

Kara Cutruzzula: you're
their ghost writer.

Samantha Massell: just call me cno, but

yeah, that's sort of what I always
say is like, this sounds wonderful.

I'm, I'm, or I'm unavailable, I'm not
in town, which happens all the time too.

Um, but best of luck and, and please
don't hesitate to reach out again.

I don't want, I don't want anyone to
ever feel like I'm not reach outable.

Not that I'm, you know,
on some crazy pedestal.

I certainly am not.

Um, I'm on no pedestal, but I'm just
saying like, I never want anyone, I don't

want some young producer or something
to feel like they can't email me back.

Cause I said no to one thing.

That's, that's a horrible feeling
cuz I felt that where I felt like I

couldn't reach back out to someone.

Kara Cutruzzula: it's one ask,
you know, and we should all be a

little more brave in like asking
people to do things or collaborate

and just sort of expect, either.

A definitive yes or a definitive
no, and then you go from there.

and it's also doesn't have to be so scary
to say no, you know, the other person I

found usually is just grateful to get some
sort of clarity so they can move on to the

next thing instead of, for someone
to get over the debate in their head.

In your ghost writing of, of your friend's
emails, you know, like all of this

Samantha Massell: You know, all my secrets
now, or all my friend's secrets, I guess.

Kara Cutruzzula: I've done the
same for friends as well, you

know, important emails to editors.

You just want someone else to kind of
check that language, you know, or to, or

to say, okay, am I actually being clear

Samantha Massell: Can they
actually ask me a thing I want?

Yeah.

Kara Cutruzzula: Or am
I talking around it?

And I think it's easier to sort
of outsource that to another

person who doesn't have the same

Samantha Massell: Emotional attachment.

Yeah.

I also think as women, and I don't
know if you feel like this, cuz I

sometimes am guilty of this too.

I, I will, um, like noodle
around something a little bit

and I will say, wait, hold on.

I don't want to apologize
for sending this.

I don't have to, what, what's the
worst thing someone's gonna say to me?

No.

Kara Cutruzzula: That's it.

Samantha Massell: That's it.

The worst thing I wanna
get is, no, I can't.

Okay.

Kara Cutruzzula: And then you move on.

Samantha Massell: And then you move on.

Kara Cutruzzula: that's really terrific
advice and I think applicable to many

different fields, uh, not just those of
musical theater and, and theater and tv.

And just being a little brave and,
and asking and being clear with our

ask is, something to, to shoot for.

Um, Kind of random, but I had to ask
because I feel like this might be

part of your day, and this is a show
about our days, but we met a couple

years ago on Zoom, and you gave me
some advice about how to not kill the

plant that I just had, uh, received.

So in my mind, you're
like a total plant expert.

Samantha Massell: I'm a plan

expert.

I mean, this was an odd day.

This was like, This was not in
terms of like, I haven't, I'm

about to teach for a couple hours.

I've got, I'm got some
research I wanna do.

There's a book I'm reading about
Rosalyn, like I've got some stuff

that would've been cooler to say.

yeah, today was weird.

I do, plants are a big part of my life.

Kara Cutruzzula: So what does
that look like during a day?

Samantha Massell: every day is different.

We have schedules.

I use an app called Plana, um, which has
actually become really helpful for me cuz

like when I was away last year filming
Dynasty in Atlanta, my amazing neighbor

Dee on the seventh floor, I, I would text
her every couple days and I'd be like,

okay, these plants need water today.

These plants need one line.

She was such a pro.

I use an app.

I'm really into them actually.

Like my, my task for me, like Sam
gets to enjoy a thing before I teach

Um, my task for me is I've got a
Monera A and Sonia, a type of monsters

that really needs to be repotted.

So that is my like special, like I
get to do something for self task.

I find it really therapeutic, To just
take out all the soil and I'm gonna

like wrap it around the top of the,
the pot so all the empty nodes can grow

roots and, um, this is just who I am.

I love this stuff.

Kara Cutruzzula: you make it, sound, like
a fun nourishing experiment where like

I would be so scared to do that and be
like, well, first of all I'd kill it,

Samantha Massell: Oh
no, just come on Zoom,

I'll help you.

I've come to really enjoy.

I like know all the names of the plants
and their anytime, like I had, I put

two little frons together in my bedroom.

They're hanging together and like
one of the vines got, I guess

like unhinged from the soil and
it wa it started to grow really.

didn't have any roots, so
it was like solely dying.

So I like chopped the whole thing
and I propagated the whole thing.

And I have it in little vessels around my
house, I'm always propagating something.

I'm always running some
sort of plant experiment

alone in my house.

If you're a plant person, you get it.

If you're not a plant person,
you're like, you're crazy.

But I find it very therapeutic to
wake up in the morning and know

which plants I have to water.

Kara Cutruzzula: You're, you're
helping me understand the, plant life.

I love that, you have like a,
plant to-do list every day.

Samantha Massell: I have
a big one today too.

I also have a dog to-do list.

Dog.

Dog is also a big part of my day.

Kara Cutruzzula: is that sort of,
okay, let's go on, you know, go on

our walks and have a little mental
health break at the same time?

Like what does the, the dog walk

schedule look like?

Samantha Massell: it depends.

Today was a weird one.

Today we just went out to potty and then
we just left my boyfriend's and came here.

So that was not a very exciting walk.

but normally I meet, pals
in the park in the morning.

Um, my best park pal
unfortunately passed away.

Um, Lane of primary
stages randomly was my,

our dogs have

been, they were puppies.

I know.

Yeah.

Um, but I have, um, I have a
community of park people call them,

the park people, and we all meet up.

And then at night I have, I've
made friends with this group of

girls, none of them in theater.

They're all Muggles fans of, uh, theater.

And we meet up at a college campus
and let our dogs run around a lot.

that's sort of like a nice routine,
but I do quite like taking her out on

my own and just like being quiet and.

going on a big walkie,

but that's, keeps my day very regimented.

She always has to go out.

Kara Cutruzzula: Last question.

Do you listen to music
during the day podcasts?

Like what does the input look like?

Samantha Massell: I, you know what?

It's so funny.

I feel like I'm in the
profession of music.

I, I actually really don't.

I have an, I don't wanna say the name of
it cuz she'll turn on, but I have an A L E

X A, and occasionally I'll be like, play.

Jazz and I'll, I'll feel so awesome,
but I, I don't do it enough.

I tend to work well in silence.

One thing I do every day, It feels like
a lot of noise, but it is silent is I

do a lot of puzzles in the morning that
it's like a non-negotiable thing for me.

Every morning I wake up,
I'm gonna sound nuts.

I do my wordle, I do my qual,

I do my mini crossword, I do
my letter boxed, and then I do

spelling B and all three Sudokus.

I know that sounds crazy.

And then it's like 6:00 PM
and I'm ready for breakfast.

Um,

Kara Cutruzzula: Oh my God, Sam,
that is like, like your brain

is just alive with letters in

Samantha Massell: I'm so into it.

It doesn't really, I, I mean like,
I will sometimes like do the Sudokus

as the day goes on, on the trainer
of like, if I have like 10 minutes

between students, I'll like do a Sudoku.

I find that I feel so like invigorated
and focused and like I hear it in my head

happening like, that sounds so weird.

But when you ask about music, like in
many ways, I'll be like playing the

music of Spelling Bee throughout the day.

Like I.

Like today's is really hard.

For example, I'm, I'm normally pretty good
and I am stumped, so I'll be like just

shuffling through the letters in my head.

I don't know if this is healthy
or weird, but I really am.

It is my routine.

Kara Cutruzzula: I love this so much.

I've tried to also play spelling
Bee lately, and my brain just

hasn't quite clicked into place.

Something about it.

I find it challenging.

Samantha Massell: a minute and
then I was like, I, I was obsessed.

I have a rule, if I get to Genius, when
I get to Genius, I'm allowed to look up

the rest of the answers because otherwise
I will spend all day, like, and then

it'll be like a word I've never heard of.

like, it's like definitely not a word.

And you're like, come on guys.

yeah, that's sort of my, that's my
special, that's my special brain

music, not music, not answering
your question, but that's what I do.

Kara Cutruzzula: I, I
love the brain music.

And then is there anything you do
at the end of the day to wind down?

Samantha Massell: Well, oftentimes
my dog and I will take a nice

walk or we'll go play with our,
our girlfriends and their dogs.

at night I feel like if I'm with
my boyfriend, we're together.

If not, I do a, me and my
pep do a, do a nice snuggle.

like

watch a show, read something.

Yeah.

Kara Cutruzzula: Dream of
the next day's Spelling bee.

Samantha Massell: Dream of
the next day spelling you.

Dream of double helix moving forward.

Kara Cutruzzula: I love it.

Well, just have a wonderful experience.

The entire thing

Samantha Massell: Thank you.

Kara Cutruzzula: the collaboration, the
production, everything that comes, next.

Um, a long time coming, so, uh,
we're all just really excited for you

Samantha Massell: Thank you.

I'm really excited too.

Kara Cutruzzula: Talk to you soon,
and thanks again for doing this.

Samantha Massell: Thank you.