Do It Today

Kara Cutruzzula: Hi everyone.

Welcome to Do It Today.

I'm Kara Catula, and today I am lucky
enough to chat with Kat Jackson,

who's the senior director of Audible
Studios, She's been in the storytelling

space for two decades, working with
narrators to produce and direct their

performances, and you've definitely heard
the project she's worked on, including

memoirs by Mariah Carey, Trevor Noah,
and Kevin Hart, among many others.

There's lots to talk about, including
how nervous I am to talk to someone

on a podcast whose expertise is
audio, but I'm doing it anyway ' cause

it's all about doing brave things.

hi Katt, what are you doing today?

Kat Jackson: thank you for having me.

today I am in the office, and it's
one of those sort of, uh, one.

I was a kid.

My grandparents, when they would come
to visit, my grandmother would bring

me like a box of assorted trinkets
and she would call it a clawdy.

And I don't know if that's a
thing or if she made it up, but

today feels like a clawdy day.

I had, you know, a great
one-on-one with my vp.

we're recording a kids show
today, which is really fun.

So I stuck my head in and I
chatted with some of our actors.

I got to interact with some of my
staff, which is my favorite part

about being back in the office.

and I, I snagged a vegan
b l t from the green room.

it's like a little bit
of everything today.

it's a real conduct day.

Kara Cutruzzula: Oh, I'm definitely gonna
be holding on to that symbol and that

metaphor for my various Cland Dyke days.

so you mentioned, you know, you popped
in, talked to some of the actors who

are working on the show, and I was
just wondering what that looks like

when people are trusting you with
their personal stories, their life

stories, That seems like it would be
a very loaded nervous making activity.

do you have tactics for directing
someone who feels really nervous

about moving forward in that way?

Kat Jackson: sometimes the person
who has the most nerves is me, right?

these are people's stories, whether
they're fiction or memoirs, folks

are trusting me to help them
tell their story or to help

guide actors to tell their story.

it's incredibly personal, the things
you wind up finding out about people.

Or just shocking.

I I always go back to what is
this story and what do the people

who are telling it need for me?

So some people don't really need much.

Like Kevin Hart is a born performer.

he didn't need me in the studio.

it felt more like a privilege for me
to be there and watch him perform.

we talked about kind of silly things,
how do you say certain words, right?

Because everybody has a word that they
don't know how it's said, or a word

that they come to and they stumble
on every single time they read it.

which can be a little bit of a
problem in the studio occasionally,

but it's always a funny word.

It's not like A really complicated word,
but everybody just has a random word.

Like one of my actors, her
word is women, and she was

recording a book about feminism.

She was like, I don't
know if I can do this.

Like this trips me up every time.

It's like every fourth word.

I always say we're a content led studio.

And what that means for me is
that the content and the authors

tell us what they needed.

And sometimes it's easy.

Other times it's harder.

And those are the really
cool challenges for me.

And it's fun to watch my team deal
with them too, because you know, like

good enough isn't good enough for us.

We always need to really fire on all
cylinders, because you never know when

someone's gonna buy an audiobook and
it's gonna be their first audiobook.

And if we get it wrong, someone's
gonna be turned off to audio forever.

And that's like a huge responsibility.

Kara Cutruzzula: I really like
that phrase about good enough

isn't really good enough.

how do you navigate that path towards
making something really great?

and do you know whenever
you reach that point,

Kat Jackson: we work and we run scenes
and we do lines until it's right.

And then the energy is just different.

It feels different.

there's actually an interesting
change in people's posture.

When they get it, they, their
whole body kind of unfolds, right?

Their shoulders come up,
their spine straightens.

they look out and they look ahead
rather than looking down at the paper.

which is really interesting
with authors especially, right?

They're generally not trained actors.

So you're watching somebody go
through this experience for the first

time and all of a sudden it clicks.

It's, that light bulb moment.

I put myself in the listener's shoes.

I always think about the people who
listen to audiobooks when they're doing

things they don't wanna be doing, right.

Like, people listen when
they clean the house.

People listen when they run marathons.

So I I hate running, so I always think
like, what would I want to hear if I was

running and they needed to be transported?

When I can find that moment
of this full world building,

That's when I know it's good.

Kara Cutruzzula: what I'm hearing
from your description is that, you're

directing as if you're a film director
or theater director, but we're not

going to see anything on the screen.

And so I'm just wondering about how you
came to sort of be the, audio queen and

guru, because how do you train for that

Kat Jackson: Well, the joke, that
we always make is that nobody goes

to school to make audio books.

it's not a thing.

I went to a small liberal art
school and I majored in art history.

Have no idea what I wanted to do with it.

I thought, well, I really like this.

So let me study something I really
like for four years and get a

great liberal arts education and
then sort of see what happens.

so right outta school, I got a job,
producing audio tours for museums.

I thought, okay, this is like a foot
in the museum and gallery world.

This is what I wanna do.

you know, at 22, you
absolutely know everything.

I wound up producing audio
tours for about three years.

when MoMA reinstalled their permanent
collection, we redid all of their tours.

It was three tours in
seven different languages.

And for clarity, I don't speak seven
languages, but I do know how to get

the right people in the room to make
things in seven different languages.

and so I spent, probably six weeks
straight in a recording studio and I

just absolutely fell in love with it.

I was watching.

Content come to life in front of my eyes.

something just happened for me.

Like the world was suddenly in color.

and I, spoke with the guy who owned
the studio and I said, oh, you

know, I'm, I'm getting a little
bit burnt out on this museum thing,

but this is just so engaging, do
you know of anybody who's hiring?

And he said, well, my
studio manager's leaving.

You know, would you be interested
in coming to work for me?

And he hired me, basically on the spot.

And I am so grateful to him
because, he had this faith in

me and he gave me access to.

All the programs I learned to edit at
the studio, I got to sit on sessions

with some of, you know, the best
audiobook directors that there are.

I got to meet amazing
talent and that was it.

I, I was off and running, never to
look back to the art world ever again.

I.

Kara Cutruzzula: Oh my gosh.

What if you hadn't asked him?

have you thought about that
sliding doors moment do you think

that you would've gone down this
route in another way or in another

Kat Jackson: Oh gosh.

I probably would be like working some
very low paying arts job and like

wishing I would've, you know, gone to
school to become a lawyer or something.

Uh, there's not very much
money in the museum world.

you know, especially if you're a
kid from small town Pennsylvania,

with your ba I saw the studio owner,
his name is Charles de Montebello.

I saw Charles the other
day at an industry event.

and I was lucky enough actually
to be able to speak at this event.

And I had this moment where I was
standing at the front describing,

all the ways All these people, in
our world kind of influence how we

produce and, and how we make things.

And I felt myself tearing up because I
saw him in the back of the theater and

I thought, oh my God, if Charles hadn't
given me this chance, I wouldn't be here.

You know, I wouldn't be having the
privilege to speak in front of all

these people at a Dolby theater
about what it is I love to do.

Kara Cutruzzula: based on what you've
described you're doing today, the job

seems to be very people-focused, right?

you're managing folks, you're talking
to talent, you're talking to directors.

do you find that you are able to
conserve energy for yourself Or is

it I'm all in at work and then you
go home and, and sort of recharge.

Just sort of wondering what
that, looks like for you.

Kat Jackson: My initial answer was
gonna be like, no, of course not.

I just leave it all on the field and
then I go home and it's like the end

of the time warp and I just fall down.

But that's not true.

I've realized it with
coming back to the office.

Actually, this recharges me and my
husband and I talk about it a lot.

I need this, I need to be out in
the world and, seeing people and

making connections and, making stuff.

I just love to make stuff and
I love to hear about what other

people are making, which is why
this podcast was so exciting for me.

I was like, oh, another person I
know who makes something amazing.

I do leave it all on the field, but I
find when I do that it actually refills

the well, it helps me keep going because
in addition to this, you know, my other

full-time job is being a mom to two
awesome kids, who are really active

and really interesting and vibrant,
and that refills me in a different way.

So I think I'm very lucky to
have all of these places to go to

Kara Cutruzzula: and with all of these
different priorities that come up during

the day, do you have any tools that you
are just like, I could not get through the

day without this, whether that's something
tech focused or physical or a mental

tool that you use to sort of keep going
and, keep refilling those energy wells.

Kat Jackson: I wish I had a tech tool.

but one thing I did realize that helps
for me is to gamify things, I have a

checklist every day, and it repopulates
itself and when you check it off,

it makes a, a lovely little noise.

And if you finish everything, there's
like a confetti burst on your screen.

I, I highly recommend that
for, people who are sort of

achievement oriented in that way.

But I think it's the people around me,
it's my coworkers and it's my family.

But it's also, this sort of community
of friends that I have stumbled my

way into on the side, through, some
of my like, dorky side interests.

they're all awesome and everybody,
you know, like we say, it

takes a village to raise a kid.

It takes a village to
make human grownup too.

Kara Cutruzzula: you mentioned
that you poked your head into

the studio, saw some actors.

What is the time cycle of a
project that you're working on?

Is it that audiobook will be completed
in three months, six months, a year?

how far out are you working
and how do you sort of keep an

eye on the long game of things?

Kat Jackson: One of the great things
about having been the digital pioneers

in this space is that we can get
titles to market much more quickly

than somebody who in the past had to
press something to CD and then ship it.

so we're used to really tight timelines.

We typically take about 60 days from
the time we get a final script for a

project until it's up for sale in our
store, which has been both wonderful and

terrible for us because 60 days It can be
not a lot of time when you have something

really long or something very complex.

but we also, you know, we have
this other branch of Audible,

it's not just audiobooks.

We do audible originals and those
are things that are audio only.

They're only available from Audible.

And those can be as short as six weeks.

or they can take as long as,
you know, a year depending on

the complexity of the project.

Kara Cutruzzula: gosh, two months.

that was not what I was
expecting your answer to be.

cause you know, book publishing is so
slow, just interesting to hear that.

it can work at a faster speed
once you have like the systems

and processes in place to

do that.

Kat Jackson: Not that, uh, I wanna, you
know, throw any book publishers under

the bus, but fact that they are so slow
is part of the reason that we are so

fast because we want to get the audio
out at the same time as the print book.

And in some cases it's
just a great thing to do.

And it's nice to give people the
option when a print book is released.

But then, we start to work with
really different varied creators.

and one of my authors, who also
happens to be my best friend,

is Mayo Zaid, who is a comedian.

Uh, and she's a disability advocate.

Mayo did an original with us and
she has an upcoming graphic novel.

And she had said to her publisher,
it's really important to me

that the audio comes out the
same day as the graphic novel.

And there was a little bit of
waffling, I think, And then she

said, no, you guys don't understand.

I need it to come out on the same
day because I have fans who are

visually impaired and I want them
to have the exact same access to

my content as my sighted fans.

that one really kind of took me
aback a little bit because, we

always say like, oh, audio books
aren't just books on tape anymore.

And it's not just books for the blind.

But at the same time it is, you
know, it is also books for the Blind.

And the number of people I talk to who,
are visually impaired or they have a

family member, who isn't fully cited and
they say like, without Audible, I wouldn't

be able to read the books that I love.

It really strikes me like,
what I do isn't surgery.

But at the same time, it's important.

It's important to people's lives.

And I never thought growing up
that I would do something with my

life that actually really made a
difference in other people's lives.

Kara Cutruzzula: breaking away from audio
books just slightly, because I wanted

to ask you about Tough Mutters because
I feel like this is a part of your life

I just really need to know more about.

so can you tell me about Tough
Mutters and what competing in them

means to you, and if that plays into
your day-to-day life at, this point.

Kat Jackson: tell me how long we have
left and then I'll sort of tailor it.

'cause if we have like a week or
two, I'll tell you everything.

so I first started obstacle racing,
gosh, my son was three, so it was 2012.

I was looking for something social
to do, something active to do.

and to be really frank, I
wanted to lose the baby weight.

I had a really hard time taking it off.

and so I heard about this new thing.

It was mud running and I thought,
oh, that's kind of interesting.

that seems like a cool challenge.

So I signed up for my first race alone,
which was like a classic rookie mistake

because the thing that I love the most
about obstacle racing is that in general,

and tough mutter specifically, the course
is designed so that you can't do it alone.

You have to accept help from
other people and you have to

help other people along the way.

And I think it's a really great metaphor
for life, especially as a mom, you

know, a busy working mom, I often think,
you know, I can do it myself, right?

Like that's the message that
we've all been given as women,

you can do it by yourself.

But we don't often ask for help.

And to put myself in a situation where
if I don't ask for help and accept

it, I'm not going to get through,
has been a great lesson for me.

so I just, I fell in love with
it, like out on the course.

In the mud, and I've run with a couple
of different teams through the years.

I had a great team of all women for a
while, which was awesome because it's,

not a very female focused space, and
now I, I am part of a team of two, team

Jackson, my husband and I run together.

Uh, we actually met obstacle racing about

years ago.

We do a couple of regular
tough mutters every year.

and then last year for the first
time, we decided we didn't have enough

to do, so we signed ourselves up
for the Holy Grail of Tough Mutter,

which is three separate events.

the first one for this year
is this coming Saturday.

Uh, it is Tough Mutter
Infinity, which is eight hours

toughest mutter, which is 12
hours overnight, and then world's

toughest matter, which is 24 hours.

Kara Cutruzzula: Wait, what?

okay.

I had no idea.

That is incredible.

So you're saying in.

four days, you're gonna be doing
an eight hour obstacle course.

How do you train for something like that?

Kat Jackson: We.

Do as much varied activity
as we possibly can.

Um, it's a lot about functional fitness
because you never know, and this used to

be like the big aha about tough mutter.

They, uh, wouldn't release the course maps
until really close to the event, so you

would never know what the obstacles were.

And now they've kind of become,
you know, you know there's gonna

be a halfpipe that you have to run
up and you know there's gonna be

some sort of crazy monkey bars and.

A bunch of mud pits in a, dumpster full
of ice that you have to swim through.

but you never know exactly in
what order and you don't know

what the conditions are gonna be.

You know, it can be a hundred degrees
and blazing sun, or it can be 50

degrees and like spitting rain.

I ride SoulCycle a lot.

That's kind of my other fitness
community, which I love, I've made

a number of really great friends
there, so I'm really grateful.

Shout out to my short hill studio.

but we also, you know, we rock climb,
we swam, we landscape our property.

so that's been really interesting.

There's nothing like moving 40 pound
bags of mulch yourself, to really kind

of give you some functional fitness.

But a lot of it is mindset, like your
body gives out, way after your mind.

I've found that there is a lot of
gratitude that happens out on the

course and just remembering that
this is something that I not only

choose to do, but it's something
that I'm privileged to get to do.

And that keeps me going.

You know, the middle of the night can
be not a fun time to be out in the

middle of the woods running in the
dark, and you're like, swatting up

bugs and you hear a noise and you're
like, oh my God, this is how I end.

There's a bear.

It's coming to get me.

I always remind myself, not only
did I choose to do this, and I paid

a lot of money to do this, but I
am lucky, that I have this amazing

body that allows me to do it.

And I have this amazing husband, who
chooses to do this with me and like,

made us this really funny team flag.

It's the two of us holding hands,
jumping over a dumpster that's on fire.

Uh, so that helps me
keep my sense of humor.

it's just, it's always
something new, which I think

to bring it back around to my.

That's what I like about my job too.

You know, every day is different
and every race is different.

You never know what's gonna happen.

And, and for me, that's exciting.

it keeps it fresh and it keeps it
interesting and I'm so curious.

I just can't wait to see what happens.

Kara Cutruzzula: Honestly, I, feel like
my eyes have been completely opened, this

whole world, uh, I had no idea that it was
not only so intense and rigorous, but this

idea that you are leaning on a community
of people around you too, it sounds

less competitive than, community based.

Kat Jackson: is

definitely not competitive.

the start line mc, this guy
named Sean CorVel, is like one

of my favorite humans on earth.

and he gives these, Beautiful speeches
at the beginning, and he always says, you

know, no one is better than your best,
but your best will only make you better.

So that's kind of the ethos of it,
you go out there and you give it

what you have, it's you versus you.

there's no like prize money or podiums
or anything in tough mutter, until you

get up to world toughest mutter, which
is really interesting because the elite

racers are sort of separate from your
everyday racers and they have special

bibs and you see them out on the course.

and to have run on a course with some of
the greatest female endurance and obstacle

racers in the world it's so amazing.

here's somebody who's competing for
tens of thousands of dollars in prize

money you know, this is their job.

Like this is what they do every
day and they're sponsored.

you watch these people out there.

and you see them stop and turn around
and help the racer behind them.

every time it kind of makes
me stop and think like, God,

people are really just good.

People are good to each other.

And and last year it was my first
world's toughest mutter and the

course is Five Mile Loops, right?

And you do as many as you can in 24 hours.

And there have been a couple of
men who have hit the a hundred mile

mark, which is crazy Like who runs
a hundred miles, let alone in a day.

last year we were actually lucky enough
to be there when the first woman to hit

a hundred miles crossed the finish line.

I cried, everybody around me was
crying, like people were whooping it

up it was such a cool thing to see.

to watch people stop and really
celebrate another human's

achievements it's refreshing.

Kara Cutruzzula: So what are
you doing over the next couple

days to, get ready for this?

Kat Jackson: you know, I don't
believe necessarily in carb loading,

although it like super fun back when
I did it and I was like, bring on the

pasta.

but now I, have been working with
this amazing nutritionist, We've just

been focusing on like, getting a lot
of good food in me, which is great.

I'm like, oh, what else
do I get to eat today?

Um, and that's been a
great shift for me, right?

Like as women sometimes we think
about oh, I shouldn't eat that,

or I'm not supposed to eat this.

I'm trying to get some good sleep,
but it's hard 'cause I'm so excited.

and as much as I know I should taper and
stop doing so much activity, you know,

I ride regularly at my SoulCycle studio,
I just kind of can't quit those classes.

So I'm gonna go and ride.

but I'll take it easy.

I promise myself.

I'll take it easy.

Kara Cutruzzula: I don't know, I feel
like the tapering a little bit is, good,

but you kind of have so much energy
that it needs to go somewhere, you know?

So might as well just kind of
keep those legs moving and, keep

that brain a little happier.

Kat Jackson: I'm glad it's not just me.

Kara Cutruzzula: the taper blues
are like, I'm not, super into them.

Kat Jackson: I mean, Karen,
you're a runner like Anytime you

wanna come do Tough Mudder come
on out, we'll run it together.

We'll have a blast.

I promise I can guarantee you
that it'll be a really fun time.

Kara Cutruzzula: I mean,
you've pretty much sold me.

I am not going to, say
no to someone who is.

Obviously so invested and you've
clearly gotten so much out of it.

And I don't know, that's just something
that makes me really fired up to like

go tackle something big on my plate.

Kat Jackson: You can't see it, but
my arms are over my head in like

a big, victory cheer right now.

Kara Cutruzzula: well thank you so
much Katt, for taking the time I'll

be cheering for you and I know other
folks will be cheering for you too.

So thanks so much.

Kat Jackson: Thank you
so much for having me.

This was a blast.