Do It Today

Kara Cutruzzula: Hi everyone.

Welcome to Do It Today.

I'm Kara Cutruzzula, and today I'm
talking with Julie Bestry, who is

a certified professional organizer.

I know you are going to
want all of her advice.

She's an expert in all aspects of
organizing and time management.

Also writes articles and teaches
seminars on how organizing can

make your life more functional.

super excited to talk to you today
and you do a lot of things, but

I'm wondering very specifically,
what are you doing today?

Julie Bestry: Well, today is Admin Monday.

I don't see clients on Monday,
and so Monday is my day to, Be

in support of my creativity.

So my blog posts go live on Mondays.

today's blog post was about body
doubling, which is this theory that

comes from, the A D H D community,
but it's a method for helping people

be, accountable and more productive.

And so I will spend my day sharing
that post, sharing my colleagues'

posts in a group as well as, A lot of
communication because Monday is as an

admin day is the day I get to reply to
all the emails from prospective clients

and talk to people, with whom I'm on
committees and get to talk to you.

Kara Cutruzzula: I was just thinking
about this on Friday and all of

the sort of lingering tasks, the
responses, the posts, you know,

responding to social media things,

if you had something that came up
on Friday, would you say, okay, I

can, I can deal with that on Monday?

Is that how you sort
of schedule your week?

Julie Bestry: I would say I'm,
I'm, I like to be very responsive.

what I tell people, if you look at my
contact page, it says that I try to get

back to people by the next business day.

But what I have a habit of doing is
writing a quick ten second reply just to

let people know, Hey, I got your message.

Because we live in this, era
where there are so many inboxes.

I like to acknowledge receipt.

Let people know, I'm thinking
about what they asked about I get

emails, you know, two o'clock in
the morning from people wanting to

ask about my organizing services.

Well, even though I may be awake at 2:00
AM okay, I am awake at 2:00 AM I, know

that I want to, Look at my boundaries.

I want to, walk the talk and
so I'm going to, respond.

I might even draft a message, but
I'm really not going to respond

until it's in that time block.

And I do a lot of time blocking
where you determine the category

of things that you're going to do.

So As you might guess, because I'm
a professional organizer, my time

is pretty organized and so I do time
blocks, so I'm doing accounting things

a particular day and marketing things
on a particular day doesn't mean

these things don't seep into other.

Areas, just, like, you can have breakfast
for dinner and that's really fun.

Sometimes it's just a matter of, once
you have your, boundaries set and

your your time blocks, it reduces
all the stress because then you know

that you've got a container for that
particular task that you wanna perform.

Kara Cutruzzula: So when you talk about
these time blocks, does that sort of mean

you are anticipating how long something
will take and then you're blocking that

off and saying, okay, I'm doing invoices
for 30 minutes, or I'm responding

to emails for an hour and a half.

Is it you set the container and then.

actually do the task within it.

Julie Bestry: I like to look at it
from, from, Really high in the sky.

I'm not going to say it's going to take
me, you know, 17 minutes to, to work on,

on sharing this post to social media.

But what I'm going to say is okay from.

Two until four.

So I've given myself a two hour
block in which I'm going to do,

Pomodoros from the Pomodoro technique.

That's 25 minutes where you
sit down and work 25 minutes on

something, you take a five minute
break and then do 25 minutes more.

that two hour block is
going to be marketing.

Sometimes just giving yourself time
for the overarching umbrella, category

of marketing or, or financial tasks or
writing, lets you know that okay, when

you sit down, You're already set for
at least knowing, okay, I'm not gonna

be scrolling through social media,
or I'm not gonna be reading email

during my, um, my marketing block.

Yes, I'm blocking that time out, but I'm
not being so specific that, okay, well, if

I said it was going to take me 15 minutes
and it actually took me 25 minutes,

I'm gonna, you know, slap myself around
for, you know, give, give myself that.

Wow.

I could have had a VA bash to the forehead
because, you know, we aren't robots.

This is a big thing that I try
and convey to my clients who feel.

Constantly stressed because, you
know, I did a blog, post series

last year on toxic productivity.

There are so many ways in which my clients
are coming to me feeling like I, I'm

not doing enough, I'm not doing enough.

Truth is that they're probably
doing too much and not getting

the right feedback that.

They're appreciated as human beings.

And so all of this comes into the
idea that if you just block out time

for that overarching category, you
can let go of the stress of how am I

going to find time to get this done?

Kara Cutruzzula: And I just love this
idea of sort of not shaming yourself

for, you know, going 10 minutes
over the self prescribed deadline

or boundary boundaries can be both
expansive and sort of fulfilling

and useful and not, as constrictive
as we can make them out to be.

like what kind of struggles do
clients normally come to you with?

Is it, physical organization,
digital organization, li

life, you know, organization?

Like what is the, question right now?

Julie Bestry: Well, you started by by
talking about shame, and I'll tell you.

when people call me, the most
common word I hear is overwhelm.

People are feeling overwhelmed,
and they're often feeling

embarrassed or shamed.

And it is all of those
categories you spoke about.

Now.

there are so many specialties, the
kinds of clients we work with, people

with A D H D or seniors or young
moms, law offices or warehouses.

All sorts of areas of home and
residential work versus a business.

I'm a generalist.

The one thing they all have in
common is that they are overwhelmed

by either the stuff in their space,
the things in their schedule, or.

The thoughts that are overwhelming them.

I call it whole life organizing because,
we have so much that weighs us down.

The 21st century is complicated.

People are often saying to me, well,
I was really good at handling all of

this when I worked in an office, but
now that I have kids and I'm home all

day, I can't seem to get it all done.

And it's like, that's not surprising
because your entire skillset.

Has to change to be responsive.

You can't manage a three-year-old
the way you can manage, you

know, your accounting department.

But I would say the commonality, across
all of my clients, whether they need

help with their technology, you know,
I'm a certified Evernote expert and.

That's something that I do a lot with,
but that doesn't mean that that's

the right solution for every person.

Um, going back to the idea of shame, um,
I'm working on, a video presentation,

for a summit on the concept of paper
shame because so many people who are very

effective, In their lives with planning,
scheduling, taking notes, doing everything

on paper, feel shamed into moving
to digital solutions for everything.

And what I try to impart is whatever
system you choose for, keeping track of

your tasks, your time, whatev, whatever
you're doing for your productivity.

It has to be something that you
can commit to and you can be very

committed to paper and be a philanderer
when it comes to technology.

what I try to teach my clients, whether
we're organizing a closet or organizing

their, their digital life or, their,
paper is whatever system we choose, all

of the elements have to be things that.

Feel safe to you, feel comfortable
because if you don't trust your system,

you're not going to commit to it.

And if you're not going to
commit to it, it's going to fail,

Kara Cutruzzula: I think
there's also an idea.

That people get that.

It's like I need to
adopt the latest thing.

it's quite comforting to hear from
you that, you know, if it's working,

then don't mess with a good thing.

Julie Bestry: You have my permission.

To use whatever method works for you.

You know, the motto I came up
with for my business 21 years

ago is Don't apologize, organize.

People are always saying, oh, I'm sorry.

You know, Marie Kondo says
that I'm supposed to do this.

Or, or Julie Morgan Stern says, you
know, they, they read the, the experts or

they'll look at, Productivity, books and
say, well, this book said that I should

do this, but I'm not a morning person.

Oh, that's something I hear all the time.

It's like the 5:00 AM
miracle sort of thing.

No, no offense to to them,
but I'm a night person.

I get more done between 10 or 11 at night
and two and three in the morning than

a lot of people can get done all day.

But certainly more than I could get
done if somebody expected me to be

sitting at my computer at 6:00 AM.

You have to work with your own
energy levels, with like you

said, the way your brain works.

you know, people who come to me and
say, well, I haven't been diagnosed

with A D H D, but, I feel like I'm
looking in all of these directions

and I'm spinning around, I'm like,
You know, I, I'm not a, a neurologist.

I'm not a mental health professional.

I am, I am not an expert in psychology.

I take a lot of classes in these
things, but what I can often tell a

client after working with them for,
Any number of sessions is that, yeah,

it's probably not that you suddenly
developed a D H D at 50, but that the

21st century is throwing a lot of things
at you and expecting it all to stick.

And so the best thing that you can
do for yourself, you wanna think

of it as productivity or self-care,
is to understand the way you work.

If you are more auditory, if, if.

You know, people will say, oh,
well, I wanted to read that book,

but I don't have time to read.

And I'm like, well, you have a commute.

You could listen to an ebook.

And they, I hear, well,
that's not really reading.

It's like, It's like the
information is coming to you.

do you feel like you, you're failing
by listening to, the news on the

radio ver versus reading the newspaper
with fewer and fewer newspapers.

That's gonna be a problem.

Everybody's going to feel guilty.

So it all comes back to giving
yourself permission to use this.

The systems.

That work best for the
way your brain works.

we are not automatons, we are
not these, these robots, of

I identical make and model.

And so, Get rid of the guilt.

Get rid of the shame.

Get rid of the embarrassment.

be able to, to accept yourself and
your, uh, your methods, for achieving.

The productivity you want.

Clients will sometimes apologize
to me and say, oh, well it doesn't

look as good as when you, when
you are here this other time.

And I'm like, I'm not living here.

if it works for you, if you are
happy, because isn't that the goal of

everything we're trying to do, Kara?

We're trying to live happier lives.

I mean, wouldn't it be awful to get to the
end of the better part of a century and.

Think, oh, well my, my closets were very
organized, but I was miserable because

I didn't make time to play with my kids.

Kara Cutruzzula: Wow.

Yes.

That's, an amazing way to put it, I think.

because it also sounds like
you're advocating for systems

that are easy and clearer and,
adaptable and a great fit for you.

Right.

I feel like there's nothing
sort of more demoralizing than

coming up with an incredible.

daily plan or monthly plan and trying
so hard to clinging to it, even though

your circumstances are changing or
your priorities have even changed,

but you are clinging to this old
idea of how things should have gone.

Your life is going to change.

Whether that's, you know, a new piece
of technology you adopt, or, your family

planning is going to change or your
life circumstances are gonna change.

And I don't know, it, it just feels
like a, a breath of fresh air.

Julie Bestry: I love that.

I think one of my favorite
things when I read is when I read

somebody quoting somebody else.

So I'm reading John Greens the
Anthrop scene reviewed, and he

quotes Kurt Vonnegut saying History
is merely a list of surprises.

It can only prepare us
to be surprised again.

I feel like that's what we're
experiencing in our lives.

You know, we, we set goals.

But we have no idea.

I mean, Uh, you had, a guest on the
podcast, about building a canoe.

you guys talked about that metaphor and.

While building the canoe is that
big hairy project that you are

investing all of yourself in.

It doesn't mean that the
canoe can't also be yourself.

Sometimes we have to turn our
back on the work projects or, the

goals to make sure that we are
giving ourselves breathing room.

Uh, you and I collaborated on
a project several years back,

based on our conversation about,
declaring bankruptcy on projects.

You know, sometimes you, you reach
this point where you have to say, this

thing that I have been holding onto
this, this heavy bag that I've been

carrying for weeks or months or years.

Sometimes you have to let go and
it doesn't mean you can't go back.

In the future and pick it up.

But sometimes you have to step off of that
committee or that volunteer obligation you

have to, take a pause from a relationship
that's maybe not that healthier.

Sometimes even with organizing, sometimes
you have to say, yeah, I'm probably

not going to put everything back in
the drawer today, but that's okay.

in our lives we are so subsumed with
this idea, not only taking care of

everyone else, but trying to live
by the rules of whatever the most

popular, productivity guru is saying.

And I read them all, but I also
roll my eyes because I know that.

I couldn't live by all of
those rules all of the time.

And this is my area of expertise.

So if I can't do it, why should
I expect anybody else to?

What I aim for is to help people be
successful, where it's going to help them.

The most.

And I think every one of the people
listening here, I think about

all of these amazing, writers and
performers and people involved in

the theater that you often have on.

I look at them and think, wow,
what they're doing is contributing

to the joy in people's lives.

And that joy is what helps
people go to work every day.

It's what, you know, I, I gotta say that.

Uh, The Hamilton soundtrack got
me through a really rough period

in my life listening to it.

It's joy and that's what we're here
for, to, you know, find our bliss.

Kara Cutruzzula: that's a beautiful
perspective on like what so many people

I know are trying to do and working for,
and striving for, and when it comes to

these big creative projects or big work
projects, you've often talked about.

Breaking things down
into manageable tasks.

Right.

Because I think what happens is we can
sometimes be overwhelmed by the idea

of the canoe, what is that moment that
it's finally going to be finished, or

that it's finally gonna be put on stage.

how can people look at those
big sort of overwhelming.

Ideas and break them down into things
that are, feel a little more manageable.

Julie Bestry: Well, the first thing is
I'm, big proponent of the brain dump of

sitting with a piece of paper or, or a
document if, if you wanna go digital,

Just getting it all out of your head.

So whether you're doing David Allen's
getting things done, or you're just

pretending that you're calling your
mom and saying, oh my gosh, I can't

believe I have to do all of these things.

Or you can actually call your mom
and, you know, record, record the

conversation, because sometimes when
you're speaking out, you know, loud.

your brain sort of, sort of remembers
the things that if you were trying to

write it down, you would forget about.

But as we talk, sometimes we surprise
ourselves by what comes out of our mouths.

Get all of these things
out of your head first.

All of the tasks.

Look at all of your to-do lists.

Look at your calendar.

Get it all down.

Maybe look around the room, because
sometimes you'll see, oh, I put that

there to remind me of something, and
then I put something on top of it and

it's not reminding me of anything.

Get that brain dump, you get it all out.

Then I usually have people circle
the big things, not big in terms

of size, big in terms of impact.

Okay?

So Let's take renewing your passport.

Renewing your passport doesn't take a
lot of time and a lot of effort, but if

you've got a trip in three months and
you don't renew it, you're not going on

that trip, the impact is going to be big.

So you figure out what are the things
that are going to have huge impact

on your life and get those into
some of those blocks you've created.

Start with.

Knowing your schedule,
knowing your energy.

And then start placing
things in those blocks.

If you don't have any blocks on
your schedule, then you have to

start by looking at all of these
things you've brain dumped and go,

well, what are the commonalities?

Oh, well, these things, these
things are continuing education.

Okay.

And, they're webinars that I
can listen to, the recordings

to, well, that's passive.

I don't have to do much, you
know, I might take notes.

I'll schedule that block in the evenings
for when I'm relaxed and more receptive.

if there are active tasks that
need to be done when you have to

make phone calls, well, you're
gonna wanna schedule that during.

the workday when the people you have
to call are there, breaking everything

down starts with gathering everything up.

You know, it's just like if we take all
the clothes that are on the floor and

hanging on the back of the treadmill
and everything, and we pull it into

one space, then it's easier to sort it
for laundry and say, okay, well these

are all the things that are delicates
and these are all of the things that,

have to go in a cold load and so on.

Same thing with your life.

Throw everything down.

Get it into categories and then those
categories get to match up with the

time blocks that you've created.

I have a client who's an artist
and and she has, uh, an art gallery

and so much of her time is taken up
with administrative tasks that she

wasn't having time to create art.

And so I said, okay, let's pull back.

When do you like to
create art in the morning?

Do you like to paint at night?

She's like, I really like the
light in the late morning.

I'm like, okay.

Then all of these things that you have
scheduled that are, you know, not specific

doctor's appointments or things where
you have to show up for someone else,

it's like you can move these things,
you can delegate them to others, but

you need to keep sacred your time.

For creating for, for painting.

And she moved to creating those blocks
in the morning and it made her more

productive because it made her happier
all the rest of each day because she was

doing the thing that mattered the most of.

So sometimes all it is you
break everything down is making

sure that you've made time.

For the things that are the most
important, whether it's the most

important to you for fulfillment or
the most important things to keep

you out of jail or out of bankruptcy.

Kara Cutruzzula: Oh
man, Julie, that's like.

That's sort of everything.

I think that that is a message that so
many people need to hear, and it's not

about even finding a million more hours
in the day or rearranging your entire

life or quitting something else, but
this idea of protecting time and that

space and the trickle down that it can
lead to for the rest of your day and

the rest of your weeks and your life.

that's just very, very
meaningful and really hits me,

uh, hits me hard this month.

And I'm curious too, like, you
know, you said you're a night owl.

but how do you know when the day is done?

Like, how do you know when Admin
Monday has come to a close?

Julie Bestry: Ooh, that's
an excellent question.

I have a, a little system that I use.

I, I call it one, two, three.

say if it won't fit on a post-it
note, it won't fit in your life.

So 1, 2, 3 is, I've got one big thing
that I need to conquer each day.

And two medium size things
and three little things.

Those are over and above, you know,
brushing your teeth, make, making

lunch, returning random emails.

There are things that are your
tasks that are specific to a day.

If I have gotten my one big
thing and my two medium things

done, the three little things.

I'm usually not going to
procrastinate on those.

Doesn't mean I'm going
to do them in that order.

some people say, oh, do the hardest
thing first in the day, and that's

great if that works for you.

It doesn't work for me.

I have to ramp up, you know,
I have to psych myself up

for those difficult things.

So there is a natural stopping point.

The reason I'm up late is because,
Not because I'm anxious and trying

to, you know, finish my book, report
for social studies for tomorrow,

but because that's when it's quiet,
I have some things I can control.

I can turn off all of my notifications,
which I recommend people do.

focus in the Apple environment is great.

in that regard.

I can unplug the phones or turn off
the ringers and let everything go to

voicemail, but I can't control that the
little boy, is bouncing his basketball

outside cuz he looks so happy doing that.

I wouldn't want to control that.

There are none of those inputs,
those sensory inputs late at night.

So I feel like it reaches a natural
stopping point when I feel at ease when

I have accomplished what I set out to
do and maybe gotten a little bit ahead,

but I think for each of us, recognizing
when we're done for today, is going to

be very personal, but for me it's when
my shoulders can loosen up and lower

down and that I feel at ease and can
step away from whatever I'm working on.

Feeling like, huh?

I built my own little canoe today.

Kara Cutruzzula: You're so right.

It's, it's very personal, but I think
finding that idea of what it means to

you to have a meaningful, productive,
but not toxic productivity type of day.

and wake up feeling refreshed
and, and ready to move on to the

next one something to aim for.

thank you so much for
all of your insights.

I feel like you and I could talk for.

About five or six hours
on these various topics.

I hope Admin Monday closes
out on a high note for you.

Julie Bestry: Thank you so much.

Well, this has been one, one
of the high notes of my day,